58. Stroke Survivor & Content Creator Bill Gasiamis on Resilience, Recovery, and Personal Growth

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Yeah. So, so it's recording now. But, yeah, I was a developer for, you know, 15 years. Had a MacBook Pros. Now I have a multiple Imacs. I have Imac, MacBook Air. I can never decide 1 monitor, 2 monitors, 3 monitors. Like, after the stroke, I had to go to 1 monitor.

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But now I'm back in the in the world where I'm, like, alright, how many monitors can we get hooked up to this MacBook Pro or whatever? So yeah. Why didn't you have to go why did you have to go to one monitor? Because after the stroke with my hand coordination and all that stuff, it was, like, very overwhelming because I could not do things, obviously. You know, when you go from walking in able to unable to walk and parral paralyzed and stuff, it just it was too much, initially, at least. Mhmm. Which I didn't think would be a big deal. But, yeah, it just seemed to be, like, okay.

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In the early days, you kinda learn, like, okay. Focus on one thing at a time because you can't fix everything at one time right after the stroke.

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So yeah. Yeah. I guess we could just kinda hop into it. I know we chatted a couple weeks ago on your show. I blabbed for 90 minutes. So now it's your turn.

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Really, I guess, I've kinda read through your story. I know your story, but obviously, my listeners won't be so many as familiar probably. And, yeah, kinda just go back to the start because I know it's been quite a journey. Obviously, we all go through it, but I think you and I seem to have. We couldn't just have one stroke and be done with it and go direct yeah. So let's dig in. For me, it was, Feb 2012, 2 ravenous malformation. So an AVM is what I had. Didn't know I had it. It bled, and, it created numbness on my left side.

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In the in the first day that I noticed it, it was just my big left toe, my big toe on the left foot. And it was no big deal, and then it spread over the next few days. I noticed it during exercise. I noticed it when I was running at the gym. I noticed it in all these different places, and then I ignored it because it didn't really mean anything. A numb toe doesn't really mean anything. But as the week progressed, it went from a numb toe to the a numb foot, then it went beyond my ankle and then up to my knee and then to my hip. And then by the 7th day, which I was still ignoring it, I was still busy going to work, doing all the usual stuff.

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My whole left side was numb. And I had been to the chiropractor for a couple of times, during that week just to say to him, can I fix my back up? You know, why am I feeling numb?

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You need to sort it out. And by the second appointment when the numbness had spread to the entire left side, I said, this has nothing to do with your back. You need to go to the hospital. And, eventually, I got to the hospital. And when I when I got there, the, nurse said to me, hey. What what can I help you with?

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What are you here for? And I said, I'm I'm okay. I just can't feel my left side. And then they were like, okay. That's interesting. They took me in. They did all the pre, the triage tests, you know, blood pressure, heart rate, all that kind of stuff. And then they put me on a wheelchair and wheeled me to CT. And when I got to CT, they scanned my head.

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They found what they called a shadow on the brain.

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So at that time, that's all we knew was just a shadow on the brain.

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We didn't know why it was there, what caused it. I had no idea.

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I got admitted, and I spent 7 days in hospital, and subsequent tests discovered that it was a bleed. And they didn't know the cause of the bleed. They didn't know at that time that it was a bleed because of an AVM. They just knew it was a bleed.

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So then they sent me home, and they told me, 6 weeks, do nothing. Don't go to work. Don't drive. No strenuous exercise. Nothing.

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Just go home. We'll monitor it, and we'll see you in 6 weeks from now. And what that was saying to me is if it is a bleed, we expect it to stop bleeding and then settle down, and then we'll have some follow-up appointments, and then that should be it. So about a week about a couple of days before my 6 week appointment, I went to work against doctor's orders. I didn't actually physically do any work. So we have a property maintenance business and we do painting. So we were at this client of ours, a big hotel in Melbourne where I live, and, I had my guys painting a wall. This massive wall is probably about 8 meters tall, you know, which is, you know, maybe nearly 30 30 feet, something like that. It was huge, and it was just as wide.

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And they were working, and I started to spin. The room started spinning. I started to feel nausea. I felt like vomiting, and I knew there was something up, but I wasn't quite sure what it was. So I then I said to the guys to tidy up the work, finish up whatever they were doing. And because I didn't drive in, they had picked me up in the morning.

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I asked them to drive me home so I can get to home, then my wife can take me to the hospital. On the way home, we passed the hospital. I actually stopped across the road from the hospital, threw up on the tree in the park because I was, because I was feeling nausea and needed to vomit. And we got home and I told my wife, be ready. Take me to the hospital. I went to the hospital. This is now almost 6 weeks after the first incident. And one when we were going to the hospital, we were talking, everything was fine. We were just chatting about things. And she left me about 50 meters from the triage door. She said to me, go to triage.

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I'll come and meet you there after I've parked the car. I've gone to triage and I've gone to announce myself and say, hey.

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I'm feeling a little bit of this, a little bit of that. But when I got to triage, they asked me, how can we help you? And I couldn't speak, and I couldn't give them my name or anything. And all I had on me was my wallet, and I took it out and just put it on the bench.

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And then I don't remember anything after that. I blanked out.

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A little while later, I woke up in a ward or somewhere in the hospital with all the wires attached to me and all of that, And my wife was at the end of the bed asking me, do you know who I am? And I had no idea who she was.

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So that was 6 weeks after the first initial bleed.

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And then I stayed in hospital for 3 days, but that was more serious in what it did to me than the first blade. So the first blade created numbness. Right. And the and the size of the blade was probably initially maybe about the size of a dime, what you guys would call a dime. And then later, it became about the size of a golf ball. So it was quite large and it was impacting a lot of the head. And then I had cognitive issues. I had, emotional issues. I had a bit you know, I couldn't type an email. I had a anger. There was a whole bunch of anger that was sort of coming up.

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There was, like, the inability to start a sentence and finish a sentence, sometimes the inability to start a sentence at all. I couldn't remember, you know, who had come to visit me.

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There were so many issues. And I went home, with a number of appointments for follow ups, and we, we went through that process of just kinda being at home all lost and not knowing what all this stuff means. Like, what do I do with all this information, or what do I do with all these deficits that I have now and how do I manage them? And I kinda fell through the cracks. Nobody gave me any support services that I should access or attend to or see, so we were navigating all this stuff on our own, me and my wife. And I didn't work for quite a long time after that and also didn't drive.

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Everything kinda went on pause for a few months, and then everything kinda set seemed to settle down. Around about the end of, 2012, things just started to settle a little bit. They just started to ease off. The blood was decreasing in my head. The body was sorting that out. And as it was decreasing, that clot or that blood mass, some of my deficits started to decrease and go away. They they would go away. So my memory came back and my ability to speak came back, and it was better. My my my ability to sit in front of a computer improved. I went back to work. I started driving, and everything was going fine for about two and a half years.

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And by then, I had returned to work. Everything was kinda back to normal. I still had, a lot of doctor's appointments checking up the checking the bleed, just trying to work out what was happening.

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And then in November 2014, so coming up to the 10 year mark, I had another bleed.

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And this time, I was driving to an appointment in the city, and my left side goes numb and starts burning like I was sunburned sitting in the sun with half my body. And I parked the car and to try and work out what was going on, I got out of the car and I walked around the car a couple of times and it went away. And then I thought, okay, that was weird. I got back in the car, and as soon as I got back in the car, I noticed the numbness and the the burning sensation again.

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So I I wasn't far from the local, hospital Melbourne Royal Melbourne Hospital, which is in the central business in the central business district similar to the location that I was heading to for an appointment. I drove myself to the hospital, spoke to, parked the car, spoke to the triage nurse and said, I'm having another bleed in my head. You guys need to get me into the CT scanner. And they got me into the CT scanner after a little bit of backwards and forwards because it's a bit weird. A guy comes in and says I'm having a blade in my brain. They said to me, like, give us your details. I said, there's no time for that. Just get me in. Anyway, they finally got my details. They found my history. We did another scan. They found that I had another bleed and and then I was admitted to hospital. My neurosurgeon appeared and said, we have to go in and take this out now because it's getting to the point where it's too dangerous and it's not gonna stop bleeding. And then I spent another 3 days in hospital, came out of hospital, and then we started to schedule the surgery, and we did all the pre appointments.

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And in at the end of November 2014, I had the surgery to remove the faulty blood vessel, the I the ABM. And then when I woke up from surgery, I couldn't walk. I had lost all of my left side, and I needed to rehabilitate that. I needed to go and learn how to walk again, use my left arm again, and that happened in rehab for about a month. I got onto my feet in about a month, and they felt I was, capable enough of being at home on my own. Right. And then I was released from hospital, went home, and then did outpatient rehab.

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And that's how it all started. Yeah. So that's a lot to unpack because that's, so so before I have a couple of questions, of course. But, so was that kind of the end of it, or is there more? Because I can't remember if there's more. That's it's it's basically the end of it.

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But while I was in surgery and recovering, they did a scan of my chest and they found that I had a thyroid nodule, a massive gland on my thyroid and it had deviated my wind pipe and my esophagus. It had deviated it by about 6 centimeters, which is a few inches. And they thought there was some other issue, and there was, and what they found was that this issue, the thyroid was enlarged and it was impacting my my, esophagus and my windpipe, and it needed to come out. So about 18 months later, maybe 16 months later, I had surgery to remove that and that thyroid condition caused and mimicked some of the symptoms that stroke causes and mimics, creates, like like fatigue and all that kind of stuff.

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So that was, like, all of my that was all of the the medical story. That's the medical story. Right. Okay. So couple of questions because I think your story is obviously very interesting, very unique. I mean, we all have an interesting story, of course. But one of the things I'm curious about is, like, that initial stroke is interesting to me because it's, like, you know, you said your big toe. Like, who would think, you know, if my big toe hurt, I'd just think you know, I do a lot of running now. Like, I just figure, alright, well, did something, all in blood thinners, probably gonna lose this whole nail.

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And yeah. So that's interesting because I haven't talked to a lot of stroke survivors who, kinda go through, you know, your your process is elongated. Right? It's it's, like, it's unusual to say the least because I don't think I've heard too many stories where they certainly, I went through the whole, you go in, you get checked out. They think something's wrong but they still send you home.

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So that's interesting to me, because you kind of expect it here in the states. But I guess, you know, Australia, other places, you kind of think they're a little more, I don't wanna say progressive, but more on top of their game generally even than, like, here in the states? But I know that's probably untrue, but you know? Yeah. You know, generally speaking, most of the story is a good one in that they're pretty attentive. They were they were quite attentive. Right. But I think they they made kind of like a judgment call, and what they decided was I looked too well. Right.

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Everything on the outside didn't appear like I had a stroke. In the first hospitalization, I was on my feet, I was down at the cafe, I was meeting friends that were coming to visit me, family, my kids, and they were forever going, you need to come back to your hospital bed. You've had a bleed in your brain. And I'm like, guys, I don't feel that bad because they had given me steroids, dexamethasone, and that had taken away all of the symptoms. So I was in this false sense of security and I was putting on a show. Let me tell you, they thought this guy is way too good. So they were, concerned obviously about a bleed in the head, but at the same time, they figured that sometimes these things and it's true with AVMs.

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For some people, they settle down and they stop bleeding and they figured that, I was, a low enough risk to outsource my care to my house so that if I needed anything, I could just go back and it should be okay. And they confirmed that it was a blood vessel that had, bled about 5 or 6 days into my first hospitalization stay. I did an angiogram and that showed the the location of the bleed and how big it was, and because of that, I think they felt a little maybe a little better about sort of monitoring me from afar. Right. And to be fair to them, I mean, you said, like, the story's kind of there there's like 2 year blocks almost, but, like, you know, the first 2 years after, you were pretty much good. And it wasn't until, you know, much generally, I think if something is gonna go wrong, it's gonna go wrong sooner than later, unfortunately. In your case, it went much later than I would think. Yeah. So, yeah, that's interesting because, you know, you probably thought you were good. So I can imagine how frustrating that must be. And then, you know, to have a second, kinda, go around and then have to, you know, get you kinda do all the work the first time, you know, and it's not terrible, it doesn't sound like, from the first round, but then you get, like very similar to my story. It's like you get hit with a baseball bat, you get up, and then you get slammed again. And then you actually got hit a 3rd time, which is pretty unusual. I mean, that's so really, I guess my question is, you know, you said you, kinda, went back to work after the first time, were working, then the second one kinda took you down a little longer. Over that kind of initial 6 year period, give or take there, like, were you able to work into that? Like, how long before you kinda got back on your feet the way that you imagined or even currently are? Like Yeah. I didn't get back on my feet, the way I was before for many, many years, and my work changed. So instead of being on the tools and working, on the jobs as a as a as a painter or as a great painter and sculpt, I was just running the work. So I I basically outsourced all of my work to a contractor, and I was making a small margin on the top.

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So I was doing enough to keep my clients ticking over without losing them, having them see me in some capacity was better than not seeing me at all, and I just outsourced all the work to other people.

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Yeah. Actually, that's gotta be a frustrating thing because I think we all kinda go through that. Right? Because I used to be a developer, and I was used to typing a 150 words a minute. I can do all the coding if something was wrong. Even now, I still struggle with the fact that, like, I can't do things kind of the way it used to, but I think that's a good testament that, like, you know, you have like, things just change for a while. I mean, I don't know if you're back into using tools. Like, I used to be a woodworker. I loved woodworking, but I'm not quite at the point where I'm ready to lose a finger. Like like, I could do it probably, and I have to be clear. But it's, like, I've done all this work. Do I really wanna risk, like, running plywood through the huge table saw on things like that? You know, I I certainly think twice. Yeah. I've got back, to some extent, but on a smaller scale.

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Right. So so initially, I got back. Everything was, kinda being managed by the people and then as they, did that and I started to become unwell because of my thyroid, that is what put me out of action for longer than anything else. So because of my thyroid, I actually quit the business. I stopped working in that, space, because the fatigue was debilitating, and I went and got a job in an office, and I spent 3 years in an office doing just basic, admin type of, task tasks.

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And then when the thyroid settled down, it took quite a while, but when it finally settled down and they removed half of it, the other half kinda takes over after a certain amount of time and does the job for the entire thyroid. And I started to just feel better and went back to work in my property maintenance business, in 2019, in April 2019, and I was doing that for about 5, 6 months, something like that. And then it wasn't that much longer after I sort of started work again that we had COVID.

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And then in Melbourne where I live, we had the longest, most dramatic lockdown. Yes. So recall from some shows here in the US that we're Yeah. Filming in Australia. It was pretty Yeah. Rough. And then we got we got stuck basically in the house for the best hard of out of 2 years, the best hard of 12 months out of 2 years. Right. We were we were locked down.

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So during that lockdown, how did you, like, how did you transition?

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Is that when you kinda decided to do what you're doing kinda now? Or or was you you kinda felt forced that, like, were you gonna go that path anyways? Yeah. Kinda In in 2017 in 2015, I I decided to start the podcast. So before Right. My podcast was called the recovery after stroke podcast. Mhmm. It was called the transit lounge podcast, and it came from it came to me from a experience I had in hospital when they were taking me from hospital after my surgery to rehab. And I kinda saw saw this transformation of me, like, going from where I didn't, where I wasn't, where I didn't wanna be to where I would rather be, which was rehabilitating, getting better, going home. And I was in this, lounge waiting for the transfer, ambulance to pick me up and take me to rehab. And the lounge was called the transit lounge. So I named my podcast the transit lounge podcast.

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And it was about helping, and it was about telling stories of people who had been through something really difficult in their lives and that they had overcome and grown because of it. And it was cool, but it wasn't really hitting or finding an audience because it was so broad and so general. There's lots of different people that I'd interviewed. And then at one stage, I interviewed some stroke survivors and realized that at at that's actually my audience. And in 2017, I I renamed the podcast the recovery after stroke podcast. And because I wasn't fully well enough to put out episodes regularly, I was just putting them out whenever I felt up to it, which meant that maybe I was doing 4, 5, 6 episodes every couple of months, something like that. And then in around 2019, when, when I started to feel better about everything, got back to work, my energy levels improved, and I had more, ability to focus cognitively. I started I I committed to releasing 1 episode a week, and it became, then a task to find a guest per week so that I can record an episode a week, and then by the time, lockdown came around, I had that really set up and we had spent so much time in lockdown. I was just smashing out the episodes, like, there was Yeah. Heaps of people that to interview, and that was kind of my saving grace. Yeah. And the good thing about lockdown too is everybody's at home, so you're probably able to kinda bulk schedule things a little more easily. Hey. Yeah.

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Because I think even on a very similar spot, like, I I have a pretty good system now, but I still I'm in that transition between everything's good, but then there's that, you know, do you get hit with a side of fatigue out of nowhere? Because I like I said to you weeks ago, 12,000 miles, but then all of a sudden, it'll be, like, one bad day will turn into, like, a couple of bad days. Mhmm. And, you know, I'm trying my hardest to bounce through and push through, but it's yeah. It comes at a cost. Right? And it's, like, all these things. Man, you said so many things that resonated with me, because I feel like it's a very similar journey.

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Yeah. I think one of the interesting things, you said a ton ton of stuff, and I'm trying to, like this is the problem of being so sorry we can't I personally can't yet type and talk at the same time. So I feel like I'm my head's moving a 1000000 miles an hour.

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Yeah. So one thing I'm curious about because you said you obviously, the 1st couple of years, you tried to go do your own thing, but you actually can you tell me a little bit about that going back to work part? Because I feel like that's one of the things I'm thinking about is, like, as a stroke starrer, you're, I mean, hit on a bunch of things, but, like, obviously, the transfer of care, like, that's a big thing that I think we should circle back to because, like, you are kinda, like they get you to good enough for that's their job in most of the acute acute settings.

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Right? Good enough to get home, you get home, and you're, like, well well, now what? Like, you and your wife are struggling to figure out, you know, you're trying to do the best you can. I'm sure you I mean, I'm guessing you feel like me. Like, you're like, I'm okay with help, but, like, I don't wanna feel helpless. So that's a big thing. Yeah. And yeah. For me, being at home was kinda bittersweet, so it's great to be at home. Right. And then and then, I mean, the holding pattern because everybody's doing their thing, and I am not I'm capable of being at home, getting up, getting a tea, making some food to eat, and that's about it. I'm not allowed to drive and I can't drive. So I'm kind of the kids are going to school, my wife is going back to work, and it's like a lot of time at home doing nothing, just sort of twiddling my thumbs. What doing what what now? Like, how do I get through this? Yep. So, for me, I needed to connect with other people and I did that by the podcast kind of helped, but I had a lot of people that I would Zoom with and communicate with and catch up with as often as I could. And then I had my dad become the the taxi driver. So every time I needed to go somewhere or be somewhere, you I'll call him and say, hey. Can we book you in for a trip somewhere or a drive somewhere or whatever? And then that was really good. And I suppose what I did because I had 3 years of these similar times, you know Right. Onboard, not onboard, onboard, not onboard, onboard, not onboard. Like, because I had all of those different times. I basically just got myself stuck into researching how I could improve my brain health, you know, how I could make the right environment for me to heal my brain. And that occupied my time, and I found a lot of information and I implemented that and then I just checked on my, I reflected on my improvement on what I noticed on how I felt, that kind of stuff. So I just became like obsessed with my with allocating my downtime to learning about stroke recovery and healing and all that type of stuff. That's the thing that I did the most. And what was good about that is I had no deadline. I didn't have to, submit any homework or anything like that. So I did it when I could and when I couldn't, there was a lot of resting on the couch, sleeping, there was a lot of naps, there was a lot of doing nothing for 2 days or 3 days, there was so much ups and downs. There was a lot of fatigue days. There was a lot of really high energy days. It's just all over the place, and you're just like a boat in a massive ocean. You're just riding the particular seas of that day. Yeah. It's it's super interesting to me because I think I did sim something similar is, like, I was, like, alright. I mean, my timing kind of, for better or worse, it lined up with the pandemic. Like, I had the stroke, went to rehab, came home, went to the hospital, got diagnosed with MS, went back to rehab, then the pandemic. So the pandemic for me, everybody is forced to be home. So that was kind of helpful, also mildly annoying because, you know, you're saying you didn't like being stuck at home by yourself necessarily, whereas, like, I all I wanted was people out of the house, but everybody was stuck at home with me. So, yeah, I locked away to the the office and did the same thing you do. I I was, like, alright. Well, let's make good use of this time because I'm one of those guys that just can't sit and chill. Like, that's sitting and chilling is literally the hardest thing in the world for me, unless I am so, like, a leg machine because of all the running. I do I just sit in a chair in the evenings and I that I could only sit because I'll have to sit to use these leg machines. Like, you can't walk around with these things because they're attached to a pump.

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So yeah. Like, reading books and, like you said, that that not having deadlines but really trying to figure things out is something I was very into and still am very into. You know what? I I just it's interesting to me because I feel like I know you've met a lot of stroke stars. The ones I've met, sometimes, but not a lot, which is unfortunate, I think. I feel like, you know, you and I are lucky in that we have that mentality and that that outlook. But, like, a lot of survivors, like I said we said earlier, like, you kinda just, you know they get you out home. Get oh, hey. Cool. You can go home, and you get home. And we kinda figured things out, you know, but I'm sure both of us probably would've liked to figure things out sooner.

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Yeah. So, yeah. Like, I What I find with a lot of stroke survivors, you know, the ones who attend to podcasts turn up and listen to podcasts like ours, whatever. Right. The ones who attend podcasts like ours, whatever. Right. This is gonna sound like a really strange statement because I have no proof for it, but I think they recover better. Yeah. And I'm not and I'm not talking about they work better than other strokes or they improve this function better or it, I'm talking about just generally holistically, I feel like they recover emotionally, mentally, and physically, I feel like they have a better recovery and they have a definitely a more greater outlook and sort of like hope. They create hope for themselves and they're less victims and they're more, in control of the trajectory of their recovery. They kind of influence it. Yeah. Whereas, if you're passive as a stroke survivor and you're hoping that the doctors are gonna solve all your problems Sorry. I'm I'm laughing because I know how ridiculous. Yeah. They're not gonna do anything. That's me. That's exactly my response. So it's like, it's not gonna happen. And It's it's not there's no magic pill. I say it all the time. Yeah. It's responsibility in what you do when you're at home is totally up to the stroke survivor. Doctor's job is to get you out of the hospital, really. Yeah. And to be to be fair, that is their job. And even if they want they they can possibly go home with every stroke survivor and actually help them even if they wanted to. Like, even physical therapists, like, I love my therapy team, but I have to bug the shit out of them. Like, some of them I've become very good friends with. Mhmm. And I'm sure every time I text them, I'm like, they're gonna be so fucking annoyed that I'm texting them. But I'm just gonna text them because I want an answer that I can't find or I got a random question on a random Wednesday. And, you know, maybe I hear back. Sometimes I get ghosted.

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But I'm just gonna keep going because I'm gonna try to find those answers, and I had a point there. My stroke brain kicked in. Yeah. I guess what I was thinking was, like, don't you wish it's like, I wish doctors were more upfront about it because, like, I actually had a doc one of my early neurologists who I actually didn't like and wound up not using him as my permanent neurologist.

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Like, he was in hospital before I got to before I did inpatient, before I got released from all of the inpatient.

00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:46.339
But I remember telling him, I'm like, oh, I'll be better in 2 or 3 days, which is ridiculous. And, you know, I think I think maybe we all think that as strokes are ours initially because you kinda want that hope. Like, oh, yeah. I'll just be good in 2 or 3 days. But I was 37.

00:32:46.400 --> 00:34:05.190
I was an idiot. Like, what did I know? I didn't like him because he told me the truth, but he also didn't tell me, like, hey, not only is this gonna be effing hard, like, once you come out of here, you're gonna have to, like, figure it out on your own. And I think more people need to talk about that because how many people are, like you said, like, they're just, like, hoping their doctor or primary care here in in the states, you know, your main doctor you see over there in Melbourne, like, people are looking to them for answers, and I wish they were more upfront about it because it's just, like, sorry, but you're on your own. And I think people that do find our podcast, probably, you know, I have no data to back it up either, but it means people you know, we're a pretty niche area despite stroke being second leading cause of death and disability. I mean, obviously, unfortunately, for those that don't make it through and aren't able to be survivors, they're not gonna listen. But, yeah, I guess it's just, it's just more of you know, that's kinda why we do this. Right? Because we know how Yeah. Goddamn hard it is. I mean, you had a 6 year journey, I feel like, before you even really got to a place where you could really start. I mean, you started, stopped. That's that's gotta be frustrating.

00:34:05.250 --> 00:34:29.500
Right? It is frustrating, and it and one of the biggest challenges I have now is because I I present so well Yeah. Everyone, including the listeners to the podcast, think, oh my god. Like, this guy, you know, look how good he is, blah blah blah. And, guys, it's taken me ages to get here. A decade, a decade of work and it's still ongoing and it hasn't stopped.

00:34:31.880 --> 00:35:12.875
And and and what I hope to do by saying that is not to discourage you is but to say, with time, things improve. They do improve for everybody. And if you put in the work and you take the responsibility for your recovery, you know what you wanna recover better than anybody. The doctor can only guess and you know better. So from that perspective, what I hope that we are doing is giving people an insight into the journey of somebody who is X amount of years down the track rather than making them feel like we did. When I started this whole thing, there was no podcasts. There was no YouTube channels. There was nothing.

00:35:13.335 --> 00:36:48.119
And I didn't know, I didn't know anything about what the next 10 years was gonna be like. I was completely oblivious, and I had no thought in my mind that in 10 years time, you'll be waking up every morning and you'll be putting your left foot on the ground and it won't be awake yet, and you'll have to make sure that it comes online before you stand up so you don't lose your balance and fall over. Yeah. And that happens to me every morning. Every morning, it's the same routine. It's like Groundhog Day. Wake up in the morning, put my foot down, make sure that it works, stand up, take the first few steps, they're wobbly, open my eyes, make sure my eyes are open, and then walk to the door, like of the bedroom. And for for anybody out there, you're you're you're headed, like, I don't wanna say an OG, but you're an OG stroke survivor. You're more than a decade, you know, and that's important to say because it I I did something last week. I posted a video on TikTok where I was like I was like, man, I ran 12,000 miles. Like, why doesn't this feel, like, kinda normal? And to be fair, some days I don't think about it and it doesn't hit me at all. So some days are kind of I wouldn't say normal, but like, you could sense over time and that's a big thing too. Right? Because everybody says this to you, especially when you're in a hospital setting or you're going to outpatient, even even, you know, 10 years out.

00:36:48.119 --> 00:37:28.954
People are like, oh, it gets better with time. But, like, that didn't that didn't sink into me, and I didn't wanna hear it from anybody until I started hearing it from other stroke survivors. So I was like, and I still say it on video, and I I feel like a broken record. I kinda feel like it's Groundhog's Day in real life. Like, even when I post videos and content, even when I do record episodes, it's like, I feel like I'm saying the same thing a 1,000 different ways. Mhmm. But it's kind of the truth. Like Yeah. This is how you do it. You really gotta put in the work, and, you know, my guess is it's gonna feel like Groundhog's Day, literally, that movie with I forget who was it? Billy?

00:37:30.295 --> 00:37:41.195
Yeah. Bill Murray. Bill Murray. Yeah. I couldn't remember if it was Billy Bill Murray or Billy Crystal, but yeah. I mean, literally, that's kinda what it is, and it's it's frustrating.

00:37:42.099 --> 00:38:04.304
You I remember your post. That post was that you made on TikTok was basically, do you ever are you ever gonna wake up and feel like, enough Yeah. About the stroke as part of your day? No. Not even that. It was more about I I probably didn't even make it. It's it's more like the foot hitting the ground, like Yeah. You know what I mean? Like action.

00:38:04.364 --> 00:38:29.635
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for me nice to just get up and just do the thing without thinking about it. No. I responded with, no. You're never gonna wake up and not think about it. But you do think about it. Let it does start to take up less space in your brain Yeah. And and time. So for me, it's like I wake up in the morning, I put my foot down and then it's gone.

00:38:29.635 --> 00:38:35.974
Like once I've done that, then I've forgotten about it until the next time I have to stand up from something, you know?

00:38:37.554 --> 00:38:55.954
And then it just the little kind of like paying attention kind of moments. It's like being present. You know how they talk about mindfulness and present? That's what it is. It's being present to your body's movements. That's what it does. It brings me into the present to go pay attention. Okay. You're up. Alright. Move on.

00:38:56.815 --> 00:40:47.295
Yeah. So yeah. Like, it's, like, kinda, like, you know, it's I know certain things are gonna go away, but, like, you just said, it's, like, a kind like, just a fluidity that we once had. Yeah. You know, I can't really explain it great, and I think that's the thing without thinking. The doing without thinking is not there. I just wanted to not even that. I don't care about thinking about it. I just wanted to kinda feel Yeah. Like the old days. Yeah. That make sense? Like It does. Just that smoothness. Yeah. And that I miss so terribly that. Because it it happens and I'm yeah. I know you don't well, I know I talk about running a lot, but, like so, like, when when you were a kid, right, and you used to run or even as an adult, like, you just have a first step and you're, like, bang, off to the races, like, basketball, football, soccer, whatever. Like, that first step, you never had to think about it because you just did it. That first step is like, I just I long for certain things that I hope because there's some other guys that I've kinda seen lately over on TikTok and Instagram. I forget their names, but I think some of them were, like, former athletes. One of them in particular on TikTok, he went to, I think he played d one basketball over in, where I grew up in New Jersey here on the East Coast of the States. And, he is kind of inspiring to me because, like, I ran a ton of miles. But, like, it's funny how we all get better and improve over time. Like, I can go forwards and backwards now, which is funny to me because I used to bitch and bitch and bitch and complain to my therapist about going backwards because, like, Katie, I don't give a crap about going backwards. I just wanna be able to go forwards.

00:40:48.233 --> 00:40:55.693
But right now, I could easily go backwards, but now I'm like, shit, I can't go side to side. Like, it's like it's always something.

00:40:56.900 --> 00:41:44.215
Yeah. Yeah. You touched on one thing you just said, which was mindfulness, which is, I think, interesting because I don't know if you were into that before everything happened or it's just, like yeah. I'd love to hear your experience with that because I had a pretty similar experience. I always knew about meditation and things like that. And you hear all these things that are great for you, but I was a guy that was, like, meh, I don't need that. This is dumb. You know, I think we talked about this on when we we did, you know, when we talked a couple weeks ago, where it's, like, all these things that you thought were once kinda dumb or silly or cliche. Or here in the states, I always refer to them as the West Coast because, like, California is very different than Florida, New Jersey, and New York.

00:41:45.315 --> 00:41:52.050
So, yeah, kinda I'd love to touch on your experience with that stuff because I think that's something that has been surprising to me.

00:41:52.750 --> 00:42:03.710
Yeah. I heard about it, mindfulness and mess and, meditation, all that before the stroke, obviously, but I'm a blokes bloke. I don't do that shit, you know. Yeah.

00:42:04.429 --> 00:42:52.489
And then, when I started reading into why you benefit from that, then I started to get curious about it because, you know, meditation slows your heart rate, decreases your blood pressure, puts you into, autonomic balance, calms your nervous system. Like, there's so many benefits from it. Right? So from a scientific perspective, I liked reading that part of it, like, what it does scientifically to the body, the brain, to your health, to your well-being. But my interactions with people who had a practice of meditation were always a video of some hot chick, you know, doing some pose or looking, you know, amazing doing meditation. I'm like, okay. I don't relate to that. Yeah.

00:42:52.550 --> 00:44:50.358
I don't relate to that. Right? And then with guys, I know this might sound a little bit crass, but to me, I I took the whole, you know, they're probably low testosterone guys doing this meditation stuff and mindfulness stuff, and I'm like, I don't relate to them, you know. I'm not those kind of guys. They're too touchy feely, you know, too emotional. I don't do that stuff. And, and it was a real and it was a real, naive way to look at it, and it was also coming from ignorance. I had no idea. And then I needed to find a way to sort of decrease my not that I I had anxiety or anything like that, but to decrease my anxiety in times of stress or frustration, especially in those times where I had that weird headache, you know, between doctor's appointments and I'm thinking, is that another bleed? Do I need to go to the hospital about this? You know? And instead of getting myself worked up into a frenzy, I needed a tool to help me just calm down, just think about it logically, take the right action, don't act like, you know, a maniac. And what I would find myself doing was just sort of accessing meditation even with my eyes open, just sort of becoming aware of my surroundings and everything and then just going, okay, breathe out, slow down your breathing. Because I had a bleed, I didn't want to elevate my blood pressure, I didn't wanna elevate my heart rate, I didn't wanna make it bleed worse if it was bleeding. So I understood how meditation and being mindful can help, and I would bring myself down from the cliff during those anxious moments, a lot of those those times. And then what I noticed was I would kinda meditate 2, 3 times a day, because I was at home all day on my own for many months, over the 3 years that I was in and out of hospital.

00:44:51.619 --> 00:45:09.315
I would sometimes wake up and do a meditation in the morning literally 4 minutes or 3 minutes. And it was usually guided, so somebody else talking to me in the background, just sort of guiding you through breath, so I didn't have to think about the actual steps towards meditation.

00:45:10.255 --> 00:46:25.625
And when I felt like I, was a bit overwhelmed or the fatigue had kicked in and I was lying down on the couch, I would put it on again and then do another 3 or 4 minutes. And then the most beneficial one, the one that I noticed was supporting me the most was just before bed. So I would put on a meditation and then have a far better sleep that night and wake up feeling better in the morning because, I kind of set myself up to go into sleep in a really good, physical state, you know, calm, probably lower blood pressure, slower heart rate, and just generally more balanced. And then I would go into a meditation, for like, again, usually at night, I wouldn't get through it. I would just fall asleep and I'd I'd set it so that my my phone would just switch off at the end of the track and then I'd be lights out, wake up in the morning, feel a lot a lot better. And it's something that you can do for, you know, less than 10 minutes a day for free. It costs nothing, and you don't have to go anywhere, and you get so many benefits. That was kinda my experience with it. Yeah.

00:46:25.625 --> 00:46:55.744
So quick question, because I know you're not I'm pretty sure you would I would know this by now, but you're you're not you weren't a big dude. Right? You but you were a former smoker? I was a smoker. I wasn't massive. I wasn't big. My biggest weight I ever got to probably was about 89 kilograms, which for me was probably about, you know, 4 or 5 kilograms heavier than I would like to have been. And then I I would feel it.

00:46:55.744 --> 00:47:01.443
Like, I feel weight really I feel it a lot. Like, it makes a massive difference to my body.

00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:06.619
And I was a smoker. I wasn't sleeping enough.

00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:29.465
I was drinking, but binge drinking where we'd go out, we'd drink heaps. And I was probably working, you know, my 8 hours on-site an hour before going to work, I'd be picking up materials to take to the job site. After work, I'd be going to people's houses and doing quotes, then I'd come home and do paperwork.

00:47:30.518 --> 00:47:52.335
You know, so I was easily doing 14, 15, 16 hours a day some days. Right. It was just it was just insane, man. Yeah. Well, actually, the reason I asked is so were you ever diagnosed with sleep apnea? Have you ever dealt with sleep apnea? Or were you lucky enough to not have to deal with a CPAP machine, any of that stuff? Never had sleep apnea, but Good.

00:47:52.614 --> 00:48:25.369
But snore now, and have a tendency for snoring now, but I don't, I don't hold my breath or do any of that kind of stuff. And because I sleep on my side Mhmm. The obstructive part is not a thing. Okay. Yeah. No. The only reason I asked because I feel like so I do meditation now too, and I typically do it very similar. I do a little bit in the morning, which took me a while to get there because I was, like, If I just wake up and I feel good, why would I meditate right away?

00:48:25.989 --> 00:48:47.454
But it's it's changed over time. But I like the kind of a midday thing because it helps me, as a survivor just kinda reset. I mean, I work from home, but I like to work hard and, like, it you know, I think I told you this, I kinda break up my runs so I don't run to all 20 miles at one time because that's ridiculous. Even more ridiculous than just running 20 miles, period.

00:48:47.454 --> 00:50:21.608
But so the middle of the day, I do, like, you know, like you said, a 10 minute guided meditation. I've tried to move on from guided. I personally like the Calm app. I don't know. Tamara Levitt is the voice of Calm. She's she's just been helping me for multiple years now at this point. It's worth every penny, you know, $80 a year. It's an app. I use it every day because I'm obsessed with I'm obsessed with being obsessive, if that makes sense. I think I see the streak. I hate breaking up the streak. As you know, I told you, I run every single day. I've been running every single day for well over a year now. I've been cons I only missed 4 days in the last, like, 2 plus years since I kinda started tracking. Clearly, I have a streak issue because I also am taking Duolingo. You know, I spoke French I I took French in school from, like, 5th grade to the end of high school, so, like, 8 years of French. I don't know why I'm practicing French. I don't speak to anybody who's French. I don't even have any friends from France. Like, I've been to France, but I haven't been to France in 20 years. I don't know why I'm taking it, why I'm doing it, but I have a 300 plus day streak. I love it. Let's see, this is a really important point. Now, a lot of stroke survivors won't be able to do, a streak of running. They won't be able to do a streak of Duolingo or whatever, right? But what you're saying more than anything, the thing that's most important is you're talking about being consistent in a behavior to get a result.

00:50:22.068 --> 00:50:48.190
And I don't care if your behavior is I just did 4 squats, in my, you know, wheelchair with my 4 legged, walking frame, I just did 4 squats every single day. The improvement that that would do to that person's physical body after 300 days would be out of sight. I could be unrecognizable.

00:50:48.730 --> 00:52:05.635
And that is the key to what you're saying. So you might be doing it obsessively, but the the good part of of this obsession is that the consistency gets you massive results at the end of the 1st week, month, 3 months, 6 months, 12 months. Which is I'm glad you said that because I I kind of agree, and I think so there's a couple things there. So I don't know about you, but I prior to my stroke, I don't think I was as good at being consistent in certain area or well, I was, but they were not advantageous consistently, because I was drinking every night for, like, years before my I mean, I was basically an alcoholic. I've said that many times on my podcast. I was fantastic, but that was killing me. Eventually, probably led to the stroke. But I do think so initially, for people that are maybe starting out, right, it's very hard because you wanna fix everything as immediately as possible. And in your case, you probably did because the first part of your journey, like, things were good for 2 and a half years. You weren't expecting part 2 and 3 to come into the mix. But I do think it kinda kinda ties back to, like, what we're talking about earlier is, like, it takes time.

00:52:06.494 --> 00:52:54.355
Cool. But be consistent. Pick you gotta pick where you're consistent, and you gotta kinda I hate to use these cliches, but they're they turn out to be true. Right? It's building good habits. You do kinda have at least for me, it's like I gotta pick where I wanna focus either for the week or for the month and kinda plan it out, which these can all this this sounds frustrating as all hell in the beginning, but I assure you that's like like you said, it's like build these consistent things, even things that seem stupid, like Duolingo, taking French every you know, it's cognitive for me, like reading books. You hear all this advice sometimes where people are like, it's not good enough to read the book. You gotta implement the book. Yeah.

00:52:54.414 --> 00:53:29.119
Okay. Point well taken. Understood. But, also, if you've had a brain bleed or a brain injury, a stroke, whatever, something similar, brain injury of any kind, dude, doing these things is gonna, like Yeah. The other thing that happens too, I don't know if you feel this way, if you've had this experience in your, you know, 12 12 or almost 13 years, like, things that don't make sense and that don't seemingly connect, kind of, later on connect.

00:53:29.500 --> 00:53:44.184
Yeah. 100%. So Yeah. Just You know what you said about, you did things consistently before, which is one of them was drinking. Right? Yeah. But it's the same behavior. You just gotta replace it with a bottle.

00:53:44.184 --> 00:53:58.750
You've changed it from a bottle to something else, right? And that's what I did. So, I stopped consuming dairy, caffeine, alcohol, gluten, and sugar.

00:53:59.929 --> 00:54:06.750
So previously, I was consistently consuming those things.

00:54:07.545 --> 00:54:34.380
And the transition, the hard part is transitioning into the other behavior where you've swapped them out. But the method by which you do it is the same method. You just do the same thing every day and you change your narrative so that for me, when I stopped drinking, alcohol, smoking, all that kind of stuff, I became a non drinker and a nonsmoker. I just changed my words around.

00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:38.364
So previously, I was a smoker and a drinker, and I did that consistently.

00:54:38.905 --> 00:55:26.679
I would drink and smoke and often together because they were they they go so well together. And now I don't do them together at the same time. It's the same energy that goes into drinking, goes into not drinking. But the hard part is when you're shifting the energy from doing something to not doing it and changing your identity as a non into a non drinker. That's the part where I found the most resistance because, of course, when my mates would turn up and say, let's go for a drink. My whole body would say, okay, let's go. Like, instinctively, it would be the same response as before. Whereas now I'm like, let's go for a drink. You can have a drink. I'm gonna have a sparkling water. Right.

00:55:27.940 --> 00:55:46.184
Good. That's a great point because I feel like so with that, we talked about my timing earlier. Mine lined up with the pandemic. Everything was shut down, locked down. I had just moved floor back to Florida from Virginia with my family a couple months before, so I didn't even have friends locally, really.

00:55:46.820 --> 00:56:01.719
Kind of a blessing and a curse. Did you find that you've had to change relationships over time or initially because of that? Because as much as you wanna go out and drink and party and smoke with your friends, you know damn well.

00:56:02.153 --> 00:56:05.914
That's not really an option as a stroke survivor at this point.

00:56:05.914 --> 00:56:12.494
So, like Most men don't have friendships. They have drinking buddies. Yeah. Fair.

00:56:13.275 --> 00:56:28.309
Alright. And when you take the drinking out of the relationship, they don't know how to relate to you. Right. And then you end up becoming distant, and you don't have friends anymore.

00:56:29.329 --> 00:57:04.173
And that's where I'm at. Yeah. That that that's where I'm at. So you're there now. So yeah. That's interesting because I feel like so you you take the drinking out. You take the smoking out. Your buddies that were your buddies kinda don't become there are no some do, to be fair. But also, you know, we're kind of a similar age. Right? We are I think we're a couple of years apart, but, like, you have kids if I'm not mistaken. Right? Yeah. So so yeah. The friendships changed because, like, people that were my friends in my twenties thirties kinda just they started having families. We all start having families.

00:57:04.795 --> 00:57:11.295
Obviously, we've got significant issues that we gotta attend to because if we don't attend to ourselves, how the hell are we gonna take care of our own family?

00:57:12.474 --> 00:57:56.980
And it's exhausting. To be fair to all my friends, it's really a lot of effort. You know, there's got to be the kinda need their help meeting me in the middle. Like, I wanna put the effort into the friendships, but I'm limited, right, between the things I'm doing, my family, my recovery, because it's ongoing. Like you said, you're 10 plus years in and still working and like, it's a grind. And I think, I had a point there, but it's, it's It's all consuming. I think what you're where you're going to is, like, my friends are the same. They've got relationships, families, their own set of headaches that they've gotta deal with, emotional family issues. Everyone's the same.

00:57:57.474 --> 00:59:33.539
What we aren't doing now is we're not getting together and blowing off some steam. That's what we're not doing. They're not doing it. I'm not doing it. Now I they do it by smoking and drinking and getting their head kind of empty of thoughts for 4 hours or 5 hours. I do that by having deep conversations. Yeah. That's that's exactly where it's going because it's, like, not a lot of it's not you don't often see a group of guys that are friends like, you sometimes with the gym, but even that kinda the lessons in your thirties, forties, and older. And, like, yeah, you don't see a bunch of dudes going to say, like, a hot yoga class to to get well and doing a meditation together. Like, it's unfortunate. Because honestly, it'd be better for everybody, probably. But, yeah, that's that's interesting. You know? And I gotta ask because I don't know how you feel about this, but, like, I think there's still some significant amount of stigma around mental health, for a variety of reasons. But I feel like I don't know if you feel this, but I feel like sometimes I don't talk about it enough. I think because, especially in the states, it's so, like, glamorized on social media and it's like everybody wants to have a thing and it's like, no, man. I do not want to have a thing. I do not want to be a stroke survivor. I do not want to be a stroke survivor with MS. I just happen to be. For whatever reason, I got, you know, I won the shit lottery.

00:59:34.079 --> 01:00:23.514
Like like, it's ex it's the midlife crisis nobody wants. It's a shitty lottery win that nobody wants. Like, do you ever feel that way when you're when you're posting on social and you're doing your podcast? I mean, I know it can go away with time and, like, I could start to care less and less. But I'm just curious because, like, it does feel like everybody has to have a thing now. I was like, man, just don't I think some people just don't people are like, I I mean, you've seen some of these. Right, Bill? Like Yep. It's like, they have, like, a bruise, and it becomes like a a deadly disease because they got their identity. Yeah. Right. And that's where I struggle because it's this sort of does become a bit of our identity, I think, for both of us. Right? Because we both have podcasts. We both have businesses kind of around Yeah.

01:00:23.594 --> 01:00:30.780
This world. How do you feel about that? How do you kinda think about it? How do you do you just let it go by the wayside?

01:00:31.639 --> 01:00:38.860
So I wrote a book. Right. And my book is called The Unexpected Way The Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened. Mhmm.

01:00:39.159 --> 01:02:09.764
And I've always wanted to write a book, but I was concerned about writing a book that was about me Right. Because I thought it was gonna be a shit book if I wrote a book that was just about me. No one's gonna wanna read that, man. I mean, I'm not a movie star, You know, I don't have that kind of life. So it's just gonna be bland and boring and the same as everybody else's life, so it won't matter. So I specifically didn't write that book. I wrote a book about helping other people. The podcast, although it's about me, it's also about the other person. So it's really about sharing their story so that the other person listening in to us can get a glimpse into what the future might be like for them. You know, one one version of the future, what you can work towards, how it can empower, encourage, build hope, how we can do all of that stuff for these people. That's what it's about. So when it becomes about that, when I talk about what happened to me, like, my Instagram has, the hashtag AVM, so atteriovenous malformation, but it doesn't have the hashtag neurodiverse or, left side numbness or any of that stuff. What it just has is something so that when people read my Insta, they know that it's coming from somebody who has had a stroke, has experience in this particular role that they're playing in.

01:02:10.144 --> 01:03:08.195
And when you look at my Insta, my Insta is questions about giving people insights into what stroke survivors are going through. So there'll be a question like, have you ever noticed your, deficits get worse after you eat a sugary sweet or treat. And then we'll talk about that. We'll create a conversation about that. So it's got nothing almost to do with me other than my experience was this. Have you got the same experience? Let's talk about it so we can create awareness about that experience and demystify that part of stroke recovery. And it has it's it's my identity when I talk stroke and write about stroke and, you know, release content about stroke. People will say, I'll build a stroke survivor or or that guy that had a stroke or whatever.

01:03:08.574 --> 01:03:18.219
But that's like it's just how I it's just how I get my community to find me. Right.

01:03:18.219 --> 01:03:39.554
Because that's how they find me. And when they find me, we talk about other stuff. We don't talk about everything related to stroke, but there is a big portion that's stroke related because I, I wanna close the gap of knowledge that, like, that knowledge gap that we have. So I have a different reason for that. I don't want sympathy. I'm not a victim.

01:03:41.054 --> 01:03:51.750
And I appreciate the sentiments when somebody says, hi, Bill. I hope you're feeling better and all that kind of stuff, but I very rarely get those types of, responses.

01:03:52.050 --> 01:03:55.730
The responses that I get, which you might start noticing soon too Yeah.

01:03:55.809 --> 01:03:59.474
Is, my god. What a great episode. Thanks for sharing that.

01:03:59.554 --> 01:04:03.255
That was a a lot of insight. I really needed to hear that.

01:04:03.554 --> 01:04:10.755
You know? So it's a completely different reason why I, what's the word?

01:04:10.755 --> 01:04:14.150
Like, I I embrace what happened to me.

01:04:14.929 --> 01:04:18.630
Yeah. That's a good point. Couple of things I was thinking about, actually.

01:04:18.769 --> 01:04:25.864
So you did write a book, and I'm curious, you said you always wanted to write a book? Is that is that is that what you said? Okay.

01:04:27.204 --> 01:04:41.500
What made you when you wrote it, where how did you decide it was time to write the book? Like because I have a little different perspective, and I don't know if I'm I think everybody's got a different take.

01:04:41.500 --> 01:05:29.074
Like, beef maybe before you happened to what when you wrote it and why you wrote it. Like so my thought is I kinda do wanna write a book, but I also feel like, do I wanna write a book, or do I wanna see how far I can push this journey before I write the book? You know, maybe you have a part 2 coming, like, that's Yeah. I guess, yeah, if you wanna talk about that a little bit. That's similar to what I experienced, which was I wanted to write a book, but let me see what I really wanna write the book about. Let me give give it time so I can develop the ideas, the the thoughts, the stories, etcetera. And then it came to me, right, And it came to me in an episode, it was around episode 70 when I said to one of my guests, I think stroke's the best thing that happened to me.

01:05:30.335 --> 01:05:48.510
And it was from, I was talking about it from that post traumatic growth perspective, right? It's like, I've I'm still dealing with all the shit that stroke has caused, but I've had these other bits of pieces of growth that I am benefiting from, like, really massively that I never had before.

01:05:49.235 --> 01:06:11.088
And then she kinda goes, I think stroke's the best thing that happened to me too. And then it was like, ah, that's weird. Like, why the hell are you saying that? And then on Insta, because there's about 5 and a half 1000 followers there. I asked them, does anyone else think stroke's the best thing that happened to them? And they said, yes.

01:06:12.190 --> 01:07:22.744
And then I was like, oh my god. Why? Why are you guys thinking that? How can you possibly be thinking that? And then what I realized was when I, because then I reached out and said, can I interview you guys? I wanna interview you. And I interviewed about 13 people, and I found that they all had a pattern. Mhmm. The pattern that they had were things that I attended to as well, which was they had a a positive mindset. They did emotional work. They changed their identity or they evolved it. They started to look after their sleep, their nutrition. They started to, create new communities, surround themselves with people that were going through something similar and encouraging. They, they found their purpose in the work that they were doing helping other stroke survivors. They found their purpose. So they had these 10 things in common, and then I was like, oh my god. Like, I've gotta share this with other people to give them a to stroke was the best thing that happened to me. It it it might have touched you.

01:07:22.965 --> 01:08:21.574
You may have stuffed up your leg, your face, your your arm, your back. You may have done all of that stuff, but from a personal growth perspective, it creates massive opportunities. And I wanted to show people the path from shit stroke to some kind of, positive outcome that came of it. And that's, then I had a compelling book and then I had an idea about, you know, how to get that path towards in hindsight. Not many people wake up after the day one of stroke and go, oh, man. This is amazing. I'm not gonna believe it. Nah. It takes time. It takes time. Only if only. Yeah. Maybe we're gonna come out with that magic pill.

01:08:21.875 --> 01:08:47.175
Yeah. And the wounds and the scars don't go away, but they're still able to say that. You know? They start living their own life from a different perspective because they start following their heart's desires, you know, they they do stuff they've never done before. Some people, jump out of a plane, some people, you know, experience life like they've never experienced before, and I think that's a story worth telling. You know?

01:08:48.354 --> 01:09:39.930
I agree completely. I think that resonates. I mean, obviously, I've told you that the title resonates, you know, everything about that resonates with me because it's just, like, you know, obviously, we none of us wanna go through it, but I think, you know, we talked about this too, doing hard things, like, I probably could've learned the lesson in a different way. Might even say as much as, like, I would've preferred to learn the lesson in a different way, but, like, listen. If I kept drinking and I didn't go to doctors, like, the other option for me was death, pretty much. Like, it was either I was gonna die or I had a stroke. And I had a stroke, and I quite, you know, kinda very similar. I feel lucky, honestly. Like Yeah. I think that's that's sort of something there with me is, like, that's why I wanna help other survivors because I know how goddamn hard it is, like you.

01:09:41.109 --> 01:09:59.390
And I don't know. Maybe you don't feel this way, but I always get I'm trying to work on this, but I always get pissed when I see a survivor and they're they're they don't even wanna put in the work or they're eating a a a$50 piece of cake. Yeah. They're eating the whole cake.

01:09:59.390 --> 01:10:02.850
Like, dude, like, you're living.

01:10:03.869 --> 01:11:26.390
Why are you eating yes. Sorry. You you have some nutrition, are there? They haven't lost they they haven't learned the message yet. You know, there's a lot of people that are oblivious to all this sort of stuff. A lot of people also wanna keep doing the same things thinking that they're still okay. I I know somebody who had a a stroke due to high blood pressure. Mhmm. Stopped smoking, stopped eating like an idiot, and did all that kind of stuff. And then about 18 months, 2 years later, went back to smoking, drinking, eating KFC every day type of thing, had a massive stroke, and then ended up proper disabled on the entire right side, fully incapacitated, like, never gonna get better. But, learned a lesson later, but had to learn it the hard way, like, even harder than you learned it. Right? Yeah. What I like about you is you can actually make a massive difference to people, a, in the stroke community, b, in the, multiple sclerosis community, but also the alcoholic community, people who are recovering. Right? And for me, I took the approach like I wanted to be the good example. Now, not for other people, for my family. At some stage, they're all gonna go through a shitty life experience. Right?

01:11:26.390 --> 01:11:48.489
Hopefully, it's, you know, many years down the track and they've got the wisdom to overcome it. But I didn't wanna be the kind of person who bitches, whinges, moans, feels sorry for myself, thinks I'm a victim, and that's the example that I'm setting to my kids. That's how you deal with trauma and a difficult time and ill health. So fuck that.

01:11:48.489 --> 01:12:46.140
Like, I want it to be the example of one one way that you can go about it is to embrace it and move towards a newer version of yourself and make changes and improve your life, you know? And I feel like that's what you're doing and why it riles you up to see others still eating a full cake, you know, for breakfast or something. Like, I get it too. I just give those people grace and say, look, they're just not there yet with the heart of the learning, you know. They haven't had the lesson yet. And to be fair, I don't actually say it to their families. I know. I'm just thinking it in my head. But I know. I always talk to, like, you know, I'll tell my therapist, like, why do you think they're still eating cake? And she was just like, you gotta let it go, Will. Like, if you Yeah. You can't help everybody. That's the other thing too. It's, like, really, I don't want to help everybody. Right? And it's, like, mhmm. Yes and no. Like, I wanna help everybody, but not everybody's ready to be helped.

01:12:46.680 --> 01:13:52.109
And so through coaching, through a lot of things I've done over the last couple of years, I was, like, okay. That makes sense. I still get annoyed. Try to get less annoyed. Yeah. This actually brings up an interesting point. So I've a I was gonna wrap up with a couple of questions, but I have a specific question because something happened to me last night. So I'm scrolling social media, and so I know our strokes are different. You're probably not gonna see an ABM rupture, but as you've been around long enough to know some of the signs and some of the health concerns, we talked about a lot about diet. I'm sure we could do a whole 10 hours on diet because that's a big one for me too. That's what annoys me about people eating cake, by the way. It's, like, if you just go, like, 3 days, like, 3 days can make a major shift, but that's tinged for another time, I guess. So so last night, I'm scrolling, wall things. I'm scrolling LinkedIn, and I see a picture of a guy who I know pretty well, mutual friends on the platform. I I've been become friends with people on the platform over the years.

01:13:53.324 --> 01:14:16.050
And he just looks like me about 2 years before my stroke. And there's little specific details that I noticed last night in this picture that made me stop. And I didn't reach out to him yet and I'm thinking about it. But I reached out to my friend who's a mutual friend who she's actually my somebody I know very well. Let's put it that way.

01:14:16.430 --> 01:14:19.244
And I mentioned this detail. She's like, oh, I didn't notice that.

01:14:20.364 --> 01:14:46.000
That struck a chord with me because for years, I was an alcoholic. People didn't even know I was an alcoholic. I don't know why the redness it like, you could see my face is red now, but that's from sweating all day and working out. But I used to be really, like Flushed. Super flushed. Like and I had bad circulation because I'm 648. My legs were super red, super swollen.

01:14:46.140 --> 01:15:03.470
Like, my legs both of my legs now smooshed together was one of my legs in 2019 up to the stroke. But nobody said shit to me before my stroke. I don't know if I intimidated people. I don't know if they thought I wouldn't listen. I don't know if that I would've listened.

01:15:05.449 --> 01:15:19.185
But so I see this guy, and I'm I'm gonna reach out because I think I'll regret if I don't. He may not take it well. But I'm curious if you had a similar experience to this. Like, again, APM's a little different, but, like, I'd be curious to know.

01:15:20.204 --> 01:15:42.020
Sure. Early on, I I met I met a lady who had a stroke and lived near me, and we used to catch up every once in a while, and, I had changed my diet then and she hadn't yet. And I started to share with her the changes that I made and the benefits that I that I was getting from it. She took it really badly.

01:15:43.439 --> 01:16:51.204
And it was like, no, no, I'm not saying you need to be like me or I'm not saying what you're doing is terrible or what all I'm saying is this is what I noticed when I stopped, for example, consuming sugar, how my fatigue improved Mhmm. And how my, deficits, are less obvious, etcetera, that kind of stuff. She didn't take it well, and and we never spoke again after that. Now that doesn't mean that you shouldn't reach out to that person and that they're gonna have the same response. Find a a way to do it where what you're saying is, hey. There's no judgment here. What I'm doing is going, this is what I'm going through, and I noticed you have similar characteristics to what I had when I was going through it. And I just wanted to reach out to say to you, if you ever wanna talk Yeah. I'm, you you can you can contact me. So you do it from that perspective, and they might take it wrong.

01:16:51.425 --> 01:18:29.649
But you're not gonna want it because if you have a mutual friend, and it's, it's just weird because it's the first time it's happened where I noticed, like, oh, boy. This guy looks exactly Yep. Again, you know, like I did it probably 2018. And I just think to myself, damn. Like, not only do I wish I went to doctors because I'm sure a doctor would've had something to say prior to my stroke because I wasn't going to doctors at all in my thirties. Even though I finally had health insurance here in the states, I've been working for a company, but nobody said a thing. Like, not even my parents who passed away the year before, they passed away in 2018, they didn't even say anything to me. Yeah. Like, it's just yeah. I mean, obviously, I should I would I would say it. I would say. But you you know what I love about your platform as well is we've also created this other side to our platform, which is what we're doing is we're putting out the content so people can come to us when they're ready. Exactly. Yeah. And I think what you said is cool. Part. What's super important too is, like, the reason I always kinda tell my story, and I think it just kinda feels like my identity, I want people to know. Listen, I didn't I didn't day 2, it's all day the 1st 2 months, I fell out of my wheelchair. I'm sure because I was trying to get my shoe. Where the hell was I running? I was paralyzed. Right? But I tell that story and I show people that I was literally£530. Like, that's not the biggest person to walk the earth, but that is a quarter ton. Okay? Yes.

01:18:29.710 --> 01:19:26.114
So when I tell people, and they see you know, of course, if they see a clip, they're not gonna get it if they don't have the context. But that's why I'm so passionate about sharing. Like, it's not bragging. It sometimes feels that way. But it's like, dude, no. I was £500 and this is how I got there. Like Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's Well, I appreciate you, Dan. I would I would not die wondering. Just reach out if you texted the wrong way. If you texted the wrong way, big deal. Right. Yeah. No. Exactly. I think that's what I kinda plan on doing is, it's just like I said, it kinda this is randomly last night, and I talked to the friend. It's you know, I'm not trying to sell him anything. No. I'm not trying to do anything he's you which is always weird because LinkedIn is very, like, you absolutely sell. I absolutely sell, but it's it's not always the way it has to be. No. I kinda hate that about social media. It's, like, nah, it's fine. We can all sell together or whatever. Like, I I don't care.

01:19:26.595 --> 01:20:18.710
Yeah. So couple of last questions. So so what you're doing now, do you primarily with your business and the podcast, like, are you I know you have the podcast. You do do some 1 on 1 coaching, obviously, with stroke survivors. Anything else that you're doing with that? I know I saw a couple of courses. I saw a lot of things because I used to be a WordPress developer, so I'm pretty Yeah. Pretty familiar with, I saw your whole setup. Sorry. Yeah. I've got a little bit of, content. Again, man, it's just energy. It's like the energy to put into it is the hardest part. And I'm I'm always thinking about content that I could develop, that I wanna develop, but I've basically got some simple things. If people reach out and they wanna know, a little bit of information, there's a little bit of a a 5 video course on, and it's not a course, it's just 5 interviews with some people about nutrition.

01:20:18.710 --> 01:20:56.145
Right. And then there's some other stuff that I find that's helpful or interesting, some real basic, you know, 30 minute, 10 minute, 20 minute type of videos just talking about giving people some insight like the road to recovery, that type of stuff. With the coaching, it's 1 on 1 on Zoom with people. Yeah. The type of people I coach are people who just like to have somebody to check-in with once a month. And we talk about their recovery, we talk about their appointments, we talk about, their struggles, you know, some perhaps tips or information. I'm kind of a good connector.

01:20:56.364 --> 01:21:11.170
I know a lot of stuff that I can send people to or show people, or give people information on. So that's really what the coaching is about. And there's no real there's no real, you know, do lapses. None of that stuff.

01:21:11.309 --> 01:21:25.914
It's just a conversation about helping them move from the early phase of their stroke recovery, the what the hell do I do now phase, to the I'm in control of this and I know my my way the way forward, and I help to get them there.

01:21:26.375 --> 01:22:13.770
Mhmm. Of course, the book is basically encompasses all the things that I learned and wanted to share with people. Right. But I can't do it because it's too much of it. The book encompasses that in 300 pages, and it's got 10 chapters. Those chapters are all things that I did and all the other stroke survivors did who said that stroke was the best thing that happened to them. And there's, the Instagram page where people can go and look at conversations that I've had with stroke survivors online. I ask questions and they respond, and that gives a lot of insight to a lot of stroke survivors. They kinda go, oh my god. I thought I was the only one hearing noises in my affected side. Mhmm. There's a ton of people that are hearing noises, and it's part of stroke, recovery.

01:22:15.113 --> 01:22:33.510
And it continues down the road because it just again, I'm never sure if it's the MS, if it's the stroke, if it's all the things and anything. Yeah. Because I just had a little I'm hesitant to call it tinnitus because I don't know if it's really tinnitus or whatever that's called. Yeah.

01:22:33.889 --> 01:22:40.389
But yeah. So something recently in a super I hate when it creeps up because it'll just come out of nowhere.

01:22:41.595 --> 01:23:14.444
I don't know if you experienced this. I don't know if it's, like, is there water in my ear? Why? That's the other thing that always kills me too. It's, like, we didn't really talk about pills and medication stuff, but I'm I'm curious. I'm not sure it's tied to medication. Is it something I randomly put into my workouts? Like, I'm just a guy that asks a lot of questions. I'm curious like you are. Like, why? Because I want this to not be happening Sure. You know, going into year 5. Yeah. Is it did you feel did you say you feel water?

01:23:15.465 --> 01:23:31.409
No. I don't feel water. I just I'm never sure why, like, it's a little weird bouts of tinnitus. Like, it'll just happen on a random Tuesday night, and by Thursday, it'll be gone, but sometimes it hangs around for a week, and I can't tell, is it stroke?

01:23:31.409 --> 01:24:49.939
Is it something with MS? Is it water in my ear from the shower? Is it my kid's pissing me off. Yeah. So tinnitus is so when people, have tinnitus or they hear voices, a lot of strokes of what I was talking about, hearing a voice in their ear, it's actually an overstimulation of the nerves that are connected to the brain that do that. So for whatever reason, the nerve gets impacted by your day, your, I don't know, call it your stress levels or whatever, your nutrition perhaps or your lack of water for that day or something, and it just makes it overstimulate get overstimulated and oversensitive, and then it just plays up. That's really kinda what it is. And with the water, it could be that if you're feeling like there's, like, some liquid in your ear, it could be your inner ear. There may be something in the inner ear that's impacted and and and makes that feel that sort of squishy, watery kind of feeling in there. Might be 2 different things. It might not be one. Yeah. That's again, that's the fun thing about having being a stroke survivor and MS because, like, yeah, my nerves could be attacking my nerves because that's pretty much what MS is.

01:24:49.939 --> 01:25:00.199
And then Yeah. It could be a worse simulation from my kids, although, you know Yep. It's it's a lot of things. It's so People will wrap up shit. To me.

01:25:00.875 --> 01:25:24.529
Yeah. So much shit. And the good news is for all the stroke survivors out there, it kind of never goes away, and you're always chasing the next thing even if you think you start to figure things out. It's like, well, got a little plan for you. You gotta keep going. Alright. Last thing. Do you ever think when people talk about getting back to a 100%, what are your thoughts on that?

01:25:24.529 --> 01:25:28.284
Is that something you think is achievable? Is that something something you're always chasing?

01:25:28.284 --> 01:26:01.965
Is that what kinda pushes you a little bit? You know, you're a couple more years out. Curious about your thoughts on that because I feel like When normies when normies ask me, how are you? I always tell them I'm a 100% because Oh, okay. Having a conversation with them about what it's what I I don't think they want to have that conversation. They just wanna hear I'm well. And having the conversation about what it feels like to be me is a real difficult conversation to have with somebody who's normal.

01:26:02.425 --> 01:26:09.085
Now, that's more about my laziness to engage in that conversation with somebody like that, right?

01:26:10.119 --> 01:26:46.819
That's fair because sometimes people ask me what I do and I tell them I'm an accountant and then follow it up with I just do private clients and end it because nobody cares what accountants do. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. So, with regards to stroke survivors listening, I'm not a 100%. I think I'm about, you know, maybe I'm 80, 85%. And that means that I'm very, capable, active. I'm very able to participate in my life, my work life, my community, my family, I do all of that stuff, but I do it in my own way.

01:26:47.760 --> 01:27:58.935
So, if I need to disconnect and not be around anybody, I do. If I need to have a nap or if I need to meet people, I do like, I just do the things that I need to do to go about my life in the way that suits me, and it's different to what it was before. I'll say no to people more often, and and my 85% is, like, I'm really happy with that, and I don't need to chase a 100%. And I think that's kind of also good is to be able to get into that headspace where you go, oh, man. No. No. No. No. I'm grateful for that, and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna bitch and moan about it. I'm gonna just stick with it, and I'm gonna improve the little things that I can improve like what time I go to bed while, you know, whether I have a meditation before bed or not in a and I get a lot of bang for my buck by doing small energy output in things that really have a massive, payoff, but require little bits of energy. Yeah.

01:27:58.935 --> 01:28:13.369
That's a that's really interesting because I feel like I say 85% a lot of the times. I I don't think I've gone above 85% even if I feel it sometimes, But, of course, whenever I feel it, the next day will come right back and remind me that I'm only at 85%.

01:28:13.510 --> 01:28:31.554
But it leaves a little wiggle room there to kinda keep chasing a little bit, but I don't even care because 85%. I hate to say good enough, but it really kinda like, I like that. Right? Because I'm kind of pretty good on a day to day basis, but it leaves that wiggle room. I know there's areas I can improve.

01:28:31.935 --> 01:29:01.765
Yeah. But if I don't, it it feels like it it's small enough window where it's not really affecting my mental health or my the outcomes or whatever I'm chasing kinda, like, yeah, it's it's interesting. No. You know what? I love that. Good enough. That's that's a really important thing where I say, you know, a formula one car, to get an extra one second per lap off the time that it takes to go around, the investment is 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars. Yeah.

01:29:02.064 --> 01:30:16.635
And and I and because they're limited in their budget, even though they have 100 of $1,000,000 worth of budget, they still all make the decision to go, we're not gonna chase the one second because that's gonna eat up bud a budget that we don't have. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna focus on these other things Mhmm. And they might get us half the result, but with like dramatically less budget. And that is kind of the key here is like to go, we're good enough. Like, man, I'm doing good. Like, I'm doing a lot of stuff. So just be grateful. I I I see. It's important though too because I think sometimes because I struggle with this, and I know we've been going a long time, but it's, like and we could probably go on forever, but it's so there's something different. Like, in certain contexts, good enough for me isn't good enough. But when it comes specifically to stroke, there is sort of something different. Right? Because sometimes good enough doesn't apply. You know, in accounting simply good enough isn't good enough.

01:30:16.935 --> 01:30:20.314
Yeah. In accounting good enough, it's not good enough. Right.

01:30:20.774 --> 01:30:24.074
In accounting, it has to be perfect. Right?

01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:39.136
Yeah. Because we can't submit the wrong information to the IRS, and it's I always thought it was good enough. Right? Yeah. I mean, I wish that was good enough. That would be a time I'd love to use good enough is for the the IRS. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But That's funny.

01:30:39.507 --> 01:30:46.895
When it comes to, did I run 12 miles today or only 8? 8's good enough, man.

01:30:47.114 --> 01:31:19.645
Yeah. Yeah. He he beats being in a wheelchair for the 1st year, which I particularly hated. So, alright. So, yeah, we've been going a long time. I like I said, I could talk to you forever, Bill. I really appreciate you joining the show. I'm I'm gonna send you, obviously, other stuff, but just so everybody listening before I get all that details will be in the show notes. But, you know, specifically, where could people go to find you and, you know, anything else you wanna kinda add here at the end as we wrap up? People can just go to recovery after stroke.com.

01:31:21.145 --> 01:31:35.779
There, they'll find all my information, links, all that kind of stuff to my YouTube channel, to my Insta, all of that stuff. Mate, I just really love the fact that there's more than 1 person on the planet doing a a podcast about recovery from stroke and the stuff that you're talking about.

01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:52.920
That's kinda what we need. So I really appreciate you reaching out and being on my show. Now I don't know when this is going out for you, but your episode is going out Monday coming, which is in 2 days from recording this, which, we recorded this on the 2nd November according to me.

01:31:54.359 --> 01:32:08.954
Right. Because you're a day ahead. Yeah. So thanks for doing everything that you do, and I hope that the people listening kinda get an insight into what 5 years toe stroke looks like, what 12 years toe stroke looks like, and Yeah.

01:32:09.034 --> 01:32:23.300
Hopefully, they can get some, insights and hope into, like, where they could massage their recovery towards, you know, where they could make it make a positive impact on their own recovery.

01:32:24.079 --> 01:32:54.100
Yeah. And for everybody out there, you know, like I said, I I I enjoy our conversations. I hope to collaborate more in the future because I think, you know, there's a lot of opportunity. Like, we we always say, there's how many millions of survivors, how many people are in need of this information and just, you know, whether you're on the other side of the planet, in Australia or you're over here in the States or over in Europe, although Europe does seem to have their stuff together a bit better than perhaps Australia.

01:32:54.960 --> 01:33:06.265
And the United States, definitely definitely better than the US. Yeah. I just there's so many great things that I think there's the potential for, and I think more people sharing their story is super important.

01:33:06.265 --> 01:33:45.055
So I really I I I love having you on, Bill. I think you're a cool dude. Looking forward to chatting more in the future and seeing how we could maybe do some things together, because I think this shit's not easy. Collaboration is important. You know, spreading this message, trying to give people hope. Right? This like you said, 5, 10, 12 years out. People need to know that it it does suck, and it sucks real hard for for being honest, but it can get better and you really do have to put in that work. So again, thank you, Bill, for being a guest, and, I really appreciate it. So thank you for your time today. Thanks for having me, mate.

01:33:47.172 --> 01:33:49.592
Alright. I'm just gonna stop the recording.